episode 72: apologies (not from us, though)

Before we get around to discussing the value of public apiologies, we queue up Youtube and Spotify tunes. We got into a discussion of what music we’ve been listening to this summer. Eventually, we get around to discussing one of Cody’s favorite bands, Mewithoutyou which just completed their farewell your. We’ll hear more about Mewithoutyou in a podcast later this year.

Sorry for the delay…I apologize, can you forgive me. We got sidetracked talking about music when we really wanted to discuss the value of public apologies. Specifically, Cody references an apology from the Pope to the First People of Canada, which gets us onto the wider topic of apology and forgiveness.

Wrapping up this episode, we give a bit of a preview of the amazing people with whom we are working to schedule some time for a conversation.

episode 71: a stranger things theology

Cody and Craig take on a number of topics on their way toward discussing the theological metaphors arising in season four of Stranger Things. If you have not watched it yet, you should. Cody’s family would suggest that you have a few boxes of tissues readily available.

But, before we talk about that, we cover a range of topics, unrelated other than the fact that they emerged from our minds.

• Is there a better Greek prefix we should begin using when talking about “good news?” Evangellion, has pretty much become over-ripe and may need replacing. Maybe.

• We talk about the great news of a new hot line being unveiled nationally for mental. 988 will take over the suicide prevention hotlines as well as widen the scope to other mental health needs.

• We talk about the greatest idea in Major League Baseball in a generation: sudden-death tie-breakers.

• We eventually get around to talking about Stranger Things. Let us know how you theologize!

• And we announce our big idea for a new series of podcasts beginning next summer. It is an awesome idea. If you happen to have a boat load of cash for us to use, you can help bring this great idea to fruition.

epidose 70: Treason, the Lectionary, Brake Repair & Upcoming Conversatoins

Cody and Craig catchup with each other post-Fourth of July. We also discuss the upcoming conversation guests are planning to talk with and some of the topics we will be looking at in the near future.

Spoiler Alert: We will be talking about Stranger Things without restraint and without calling out any spoiler alerts. So, if you haven’t binged on it yet, it’s time to catch up.

episode 69: Angela Denker & Red State Christians

After getting an update on Cody’s health (and what I heard as “butt nerves”?) we have a conversation (with a number of technical difficulties) about some quick updates on: Stanely Cup, golf and the LIV league, and then a bit about of youth basketball as Angela joined us, as we to talked way too briefly about DeShaun Watson and the questions about the state of the NFL regarding sexual misconduct and ethics.

We had a conversation with someone whose Venn diagram of interests looks a bit like Cody’s and Craig’s. Years ago, when Cody wondered who could discuss theology, sports, and pastoring, he asked Craig. And today’s guest covers those three areas with astounding excellence.

We speak with writer, pastor, and athlete, Angela Denker around the upcoming release of her updated book, Red State Christians. Revising and updating parts of the book, Angela is highlighting the emerging impact of white Christian nationalism.

Pre-order Angela Denker’s updated book, from https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781506482507

Since having written the book, there’s been a pandemic, George Floyd was murdered just miles from her home, there was a movement toward racial reckoning and justice, and an attempted insurrection. In all these things, the voice of white Christian nationalism broadcast an over-sized voice, and it needs to be called out.

Additionally, we got into some deep theological issues around atonement and incarnation. The white Christian nationalistic movements have, in effect, denied Jesus his ancient Palestinian identity, and evangelicals (as well as any other Christians) need to wake up to this.

You can read more of Angela’s work at her site https://www.angeladenker.com/ and her blog, which also points to other published work at: https://agoodchristianwoman.blogspot.com/

And Angela keeps an active Twitter feed, which is a great place to follow her.

episode 68: Matthew Paul Turner

Episode 68: Matthew Paul Turner

We’ve been hearing a LOT about deconstruction the last few years, even featuring episodes about the topic here and there on this podcast. But what comes AFTER deconstruction? The answer will of course be different for each person.  Matthew Paul Turner– a forerunner of the current deconstruction movement by over a decade– has found an answer that suits him well, and might work for many others: telling better stories. Specifically in the form of picture books.

His work in this particular genre began with When God Made You, and since then he has published many more, including What is God Like?, When I Pray For You, and his most recent book, I Am God’s Dream.

Check out Matthew Paul Turner’s author page and ongoing work here:
https://matthewpaulturner.com/

and check out the archives of his old blog, Jesus Needs New PR:

https://matthewpaulturner.com/category/jesus-needs-new-pr/

Our broad ranging discussion covers a LOT of ground, including: 

• How the campaign of George W. Bush gave him a spiritual orgasm with the catchy phrase “compassionate conservatism,” but eventually left him empty, especially in the wake of Hurricane Katrina (which Matthew notes as the deconstruction starting point for him) “I no longer wanted my theology to be against people.”

• How he started first critiquing what was wrong with his Evangelical subculture in his classic blog, “Jesus Needs New PR.” The path led him to start writing children’s books, because he was “looking for words to read over their kids” that weren’t destructive or left his children thinking God was a monster. 

• How “children’s literature” is a misnomer, and his preference for the term “picture books” because they enable others to see a new picture of the spiritual life.

• The importance of representing all people in his books, and having a girl of color (first  Illustrated by David Catrow) provide a powerful way forward as she stands in for us all in his books.

• About writing his latest book I Am God’s Dream during hard times, and the choice to include that reality in the pages, though the story is ultimately driven by hope and joy. Matthew shares withs us a little about how he finds joy.

AND MUCH MORE

Check out MPT’s socials:
Twitter
Facebook
Instagram
YouTube

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episode 67: Forrest Clay, Go-Karts, & Recovery

Is there any hope for recovery after dismantling the scaffolding of your faith? Can you find a spiritual community after the painful challenges of walking away from a church culture in which you have been deeply enmeshed?

Cody and Craig had a fun and thoughtful  conversation with musician, go-kart czar, and pizza delivery guy Forrest Clay, who faced all of this himself over the last decade plus.

At one time, Clay was deeply involved in worship music leadership and was even part of a touring Christian band, on the precipice of releasing albums and discussing record deals.

And then he wasn’t. 

Clay discusses the cognitive dissonance of evangelical messaging, Northern Ohio politics, and his own journey of deconstruction and finding a new path forward. His current perspective gives him some unique insight to share “warning signs” with churches and ministers about the lure of power, influence, and celebrity.

He shares about his most recent EP, Recover, a four-year musical journal of sorts. The record gives voice to the pain and challenges Clay faced while deciding to walk away from the church community and culture in which he was deeply rooted. The separation was hard, and yet he found hope in a deeper and more expansive vision of the “image of God” that he paints in his music.

Other tidbits:

• There is such a thing as go-kart culture

• Delivering pizza can be a liberating experience

• It IS possible to find a spiritual community after deconstruction

• We listen to Forrest Clay’s song “Recover”

Follow Forrest Clay on Facebook, Spotify, YouTube, and Bandcamp

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episode 66: Sunia Gibbs

Episode 66 Sunia Gibbs

UMC pastor at The Groves in Portland, Oregon. Born in South Korea and raised in Minneapolis, Sunia arrived in Portland to work with the Assemblies of God campus ministries at Portland State University. Through the United Methodist church, Sunia became a church planter and worked at restoring and renewing and rooting the church in the neighborhood. 

We cover a lot of ground with Sunia in this conversation:

• A methodology for church life: It is the impulse toward justice, a strategic organizing of the church that is part of a larger strategy of sustained movements of justice in Portland”

• The experience of living in different cities and interacting with differing cultures: “Former assimilators make the best interpreters.”

• Reflections of pastoring through the pandemic: “There is no return to normal…we are changed forever.”

• Check out Sunia’s performance of There is a River from the Parish Collective.

Sunia Gibbs with from the Parish Collective, performs: There is a River

Links to Parish Collective and to the upcoming Inhabit Conference

Link to The Groves Church

episode 65: Knowing When to Quit

Craig and Cody connect for a shorter episode to discuss two topics in particular:

• The recent wave of retirements in the world of professional athletics (headlined by Tom Brady) prompts Cody to ask: When do you know it’s time to quit? We don’t leave the discussion in the realm of sports—we talk about careers, ministry, and relationships.

• The conversation naturally flows to the popular topic of deconstruction. While both hosts are pro deconstruction, both notice a couple troublesome aspects that can suck the life and positive intent out of deconstruction: 1. marketing/capitalizing on it as a trend; and 2. getting frozen in deconstruction as a “calling card,” rather than building anything new from the rubble.

Articles and addenda mentioned:
“Why We Should Not Redeem ‘Deconstruction’” article by Alisa Childers

“Why We Should Not Redeem ‘Fundamentalist Evangelicalism’” by Jared Byas

The Bible for Normal People, Episode 194: Staying Christian is Hard, isn’t it?

“5 Challenges to Staying Christian,” by Pete Enns

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episode 64: Kalie Hargove

Cody and Craig check back in with Kalie Hargrove. Kalie joined us in earlier episodes, Episode 52: Kalie and Pride Month, and Episode 53: Kalie, A Look at Genesis 1 & 2.

Kalie is a pastor at First Christian Church of Decatur, Ga., and a seminary student. In the midst of Kalie’s seminary education, suddenly her academic world was changed when her school informed her that they could not accept her as a transgender person. Fortunately, she has found a new school in which she can continue her education. But that shift was not her idea, not her intention. 

We cover a variety of topics:

• Title IX, a US law that is intended to provide equal access to education creates loopholes for exclusions based on religious exceptions. You learn what Title IX is at www.ed.gov/category/keyword/title-ix

• Kalie introduces us to REAP, The Religious Exemption Accountability Project 

• We spend some time talking about the Independent Christian Church and the Restoration Movement, and the fruit that Kalie sees in parts of this stream of Christianity. 

• In our wind down of the discussion, Kalie shares with us what she is reading (Nevada, by Imogen Binne; and Spiritual Care in an Age of #BlackLivesMatter, by Danielle J. Buhuro); what she is watching (The Good Place); and what she is listening to (the album Late Bloomer, by Semler)

To learn more about Kalie, read her devotional on OurBibleApp.com, Celebrating Gender Diversity at: https://www.ourbibleapp.com/new-blog/rev-kalie-hargrove 

and read more about Kalie’s Title IX complaint and the class-action lawsuit here and here. 

______________

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episode 63: two-minute warning

When we first started, we outlined our podcast conversations around the daily liturgy - kinda. We even had an offering of sorts where we’d ask for money to support the podcast and the sponsor (themissionplace.org). But rather than having a benediction at the end, we would have a “Two-Minute Warning.”

In football, the two-minute warning represents a fast-paced offense, and an edge-of-your-seat defense. The two teams can go head-to-head, sometime playing more focused and deliberate football than in all the minutes that preceded it.

We turned that into an offense and defense speaking debate, in which the offense would speak to the proposition and then the defense would respond, one-minute each. We even used a whistle. We leave it up to you, dear listener, to determine whether it is win. lose, or draw.

In the following two-minute warnings, Cody and Craig flex their intellectual muscles. The power of reason. And the sheer determination to bend rational processing to squeeze out a victory.

Enjoy!

episode 61: Been in the Struggle with Regina Shands Stoltzfus and Tobin Miller Shearer

Cody and Craig spoke with Tobin, Professor of African American Studies, several months ago in February 2021, episode 45, and learned that he wasn’t keeping up with University of Montana Football (nonetheless, Go Griz). We speak to Tobin again and meet his long-time friend and partner in struggle to dismantle racism, Dr. Regina Shands Stoltzfus of Goshen College.

Regina is professor in the Religion, Justice, and Society department and worked at anti-oppression and anti-racism for over thirty years.

Over that time, Regina and Tobin co-founded several anti-racism initiatives for institutions, leaders, and church and the general public.

We’re visiting with them because of their new book, Been in the Struggle: Pursuing and antiracist spirituality, by Herald Press.

 We gained some insight, and we hope you’ll be curious to learn:

• what is racialization?

• how does culture play a role in developing both our spirituality and our racialization?

• in the midst of injustice and oppression, how do both compassion and reckoning function?

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Pre-Black Friday

Cody and Craig were just checking in with each other. Not really intending to record a podcast. But, Cody unintentionally took a turn toward things accidentally profound.

Listen in as we discuss some the opportunities to use Black Friday and other shopping to support justice, the arts, and independent and small businesses.

Black Friday Record Store Day

https://recordstoreday.com/

Listen to Cody rattle off new pressings of albums and some pressed-again (not repressed) albums.

Buy Black Friday –

https://twitter.com/BBFInitiative

https://twitter.com/blkfoodfridays

Small Business Saturday, November 27, 2021

https://www.americanexpress.com/us/small-business/shop-small/

episode 59: my anchor holds

Jacob and Katie O'Neall Eckeberger, aka My Anchor Holds, write and perform music “music for those with an evolving faith.”

We had a really fun conversation with them as we learned about their musical/theological journey. But before we got into that conversation, Cody and Craig were marveling at one of the events in sports culture.

The Washington Post had reported that a pair of Michael Jordan’s used shoes sold for $1.4 million, “shattering a record for game-used footwear.” That’s a lot of money for used shoes. But you learn something new every day – there’s a category of auction items actually called “game-used footwear.” There’s probably a category for just plain used footwear. Maybe your shoes, too?

After about 40 minutes of nonsense covering Advent (learn about Katheen Lundquist and Of the Father’s Love Begotten), sneakers, March Madness medical procedures, and Vikings, we talked with Katie and Jacob.

Then, we began talking about music, worship, and My Anchor Hold’s upcoming EP, Holding Out Faith, being released November 19th. And we also get to listen to the title track “Holding Out Faith”.

Their faith journey provides a hopeful path, especially for all those who are reconsidering the faith they entered into. Theirs is a process of reconstruction. Their music brings both music for audiences to listen to and reflect, while other songs are intended not for an audience, but for fellow journeyers to sing in worship and community. Jacob and Katie comment that worship music is a way to see outside of ourselves. As they describe this perspective and this journey, they state: “we want to connect with anyone from anywhere that has the same passion for finding God in unlikely places and movements of justice that fight for space for everyone” (myanchorholds.net)

One of the questions that lingered long before our conversation began arose from a social media post from Katie, pondering where is worship music to be found for the progressive, left-leaning church, inclusive, and justice-oriented church? We discuss that a many other things.

You can follow on social media, and My Anchor Holds on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/MyAnchorHolds/

On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/myanchorholds/

and Twitter https://twitter.com/My_Anchor_Holds and TikTok @mrsoberger

Buy their upcoming EP, being released November 19

Music can be found on Spotify, iTunes, and CDBaby

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episode 58: the F episode & how to have an enemy

The F Episode: How to Have an Enemy

This is the F episode, perhaps it seems we don’t know our letters well. Don’t we mean frenemies, you might be asking yourself. But no! Cody and Craig do stick with the letter “F” through our 40-plus minutes banter and commentary and opinions, before getting into conversation with our guest.

We visit with author and Mennonite pastor, Melissa Florer-Bixler and hear about her new book, How to Have an Enemy (Herald Press).

Melissa is a writer and pastor with degrees from Duke University and Princeton Theological Seminary. Her ministry at Raleigh Mennonite Church has been featured in The Atlantic and Sojourners. She writes for Geez Magazine, Christian Century, Mennonite World Review, and The Mennonite, among others. She lives with her husband and three children in Raleigh, North Carolina.

• Learn about the value of truth-telling, when the truth is that there are forces working against God’s good news.

• Ponder what is means to pastor in a purple church.

• Considering the lasting impact of the Trump administration and trumpism.

• On pastoring: “my job is not to be the most pious, but to create a discerning community.”

• What do we do with anger and can we take on other’s burden of anger so they don’t have to bear it alone?

• Melissa also talks a bit about her latest Netflix interest and what’s on her playlist.

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Episode 57: Subversive Witness

On this episode (LONG in the making but well worth the wait), Cody and Craig quickly discuss a few S topics before chatting with their guest Dominique DuBois Gilliard (author of Subversive Witness: Scripture’s Call to Leverage Privilege.

Dominique DuBois Gilliard is the Director of Racial Righteousness and Reconciliation for the Evangelical Covenant Church. He is the author of Rethinking Incarceration: Advocating for Justice that Restores, which won a 2018 Book of the Year Award for InterVarsity Press and was named Outreach Magazine’s 2019 Social Issues Resource of the Year. Gilliard’s latest book, Subversive Witness: Scripture’s Call to Leverage Privilege was just published by Zondervan. Gilliard also serves as an adjunct professor at North Park Theological Seminary in its School of Restorative Arts and serves on the board of directors for the Christian Community Development Association. In 2015, the Huffington Post named him one of the “Black Christian Leaders Changing the World.”

In addition to the fascinating discussion about Dominique’s book, Craig and Cody also spent a little time talking about a couiple of S topics:

• Both agree that the coaches, administrators, parents—really EVERYONE INVOLVED with the Bishop Sycamore scandal were incredibly SLY, SHADY, and SLIMY

• We talk about the SUN finally making an appearance after so much smoke all SUMMER long.

• We highlight some SERIOUS SCRIPTURAL ABUSE from the Biden Administration

• PLUS a bit more from here and there!

Pertinent Links from the Dominque DuBois Gilliard portion:

• Learn about Domique’s denomination, the Evangelical Covenant Church

• Check out the Christian Community Development Association, where Dominique serves as board member

• Read about the School of Restorative Arts at Northpark Theological Seminary

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Episode 56: TAYU, Mayhem, and Magic Beans

Craig and Cody make a majestically triumphant return! And this time, they keep the alphabet momentum going by showcasing the letter “M,” including an interview with a new band called Thinking About You Underwater (TAYU).

Mayhem, Magic Beans, and Meteorology
Craig recounts the mishaps on his trek home from Arizona, featuring motor vehicle mayhem, a magic coffee concoction he discovered at a coffee shop while waiting for his car to be fixed, and how smoke affected his journey—which led us into a discussion of the term “contained” when reading reports about wildfires.

Music
Cody interviews the fresh new band TAYU (Thinking About You Underwater). Hailing from Eugene, Oregon, they have an updated retro sound (if that makes sense). They cover the ins and outs of making their debut album in the middle of pandemic, how they formed in the first place, and share a little bit about themselves. TAYU is: Wade Bulger (Guitars/Background Vocals); Grant Williamson (Vocals/Keys); Brandon Ferguson (Bass); and Nick Smo (Drums/Percussion)
learn more and find their socials:
https://linktr.ee/tayu

Mental Health & Athletics
With the recent news surrounding athletes making mental health a priority, Craig and Cody discuss: performance anxiety; pressure from within and without; what athletes owe the public; what coaches can do and prioritize to help athletes be healthy; dealing with choking and the yips; and more.
Pertinent Links:
Angela Duckworth, Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance
Sian Beilock, Choke: What the Secrets of the Brain Reveal About Getting It Right When You Have To               

Masks, Mandates, and Micromorts
18 months into a pandemic, and we’re still discussing issues about personal liberty vs. public responsibility; how and why American Christians are failing Following Jesus 101 and choosing to bow to the idol of personal liberty. Craig shares about a museum exhibit in Arizona that featured hand beaded COVID masks crafted by Indigenous artists in response to the pandemic and in protest of the high-rate of mortality among the Indigenous populations that is linked to their historic treatment in the USA. We also learn about micromorts—a measure of risk of mortality—and a resource that uses your local data to calculate your Micromort in relation to COVID-19.
Pertinent Links:
Microcovid.org
Behind the Mask: Indigenous Artists Speak Out (Heard Museum)
Christians and the Vaccine

Manual Dexterity (Craigs upcoming surgery)
Craig reveals that he has been suffering from Dupuytrens contracture in his hands—which is slowly turning his hands into permanently balled-up fists. But he is having surgery to fix it!

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Episode 55: Rev. Joe Kim, Food, and Faith

This week we are joined by Rev. Joe Kim, who helps us work through the letter “F.”
Joe has served as the Lead Pastor of Bothell United Methodist Church since April 2018. Prior to that, Joe was the Director of Children’s Rights Advocacy at the General Board of Church and Society of the United Methodist Church in Washington, D.C., where he focused on policy and advocacy efforts to combat human trafficking and promote equal education opportunities for all children.

With Joe, we tackle the following “F” topics:

Food & Faith

• We discuss how the pandemic led Joe to discover a passion for cooking food at home with his family and learning the joy of discovery, creativity, and “ownership” with his children when it comes to preparing and eating food

• How the restaurant industry is showing the church how to face the new normal, coming out of the pandemic

• Joe shares his vision for a restaurant church that would feature a common table setting and a shared family meal from the mind of a top-notch chef

Filthy Rich

• We talk about the Great Space Race and Rocket Measuring Contest of the Billionaire Class, and whether there is any benefit to be gained

• We discuss the differences in approach between each mission and Billionaire (Branson vs. Bezos vs. Musk) and their connection to the common good, if any

• Why simply taxing them more won’t ever work, and how the approach to taxing them and their enterprises will require a creative new tax approach (we even offer some ideas) because the current tax burden falls on the employees, not CEO’s or the corporation.

Football

• Though we are talking “F’s” in this episode, we discuss Aaron Rodgers who appears not to give any this offseason

• We briefly discuss the revelation that he was offered the largest contract in NFL history—and turned it down

Fantastic Failure

• We discuss the hottest new serial style podcast, “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” by Christianity Today

• We examine the draw toward charismatic, authoritarian leaders

• We revisit the early 2000’s through 2015 period discussed in the podcast, plus our own small perspectives on when we realized Mark Driscoll was a bad egg

All this PLUS our usual amount of foolishness and frivolity!

Pertinent Links

Learn more about Joe and connect with his church: Bothell UMC

Order the coffee Joe is drinking: Mt. Comfort Coffee

Check out the podcasts Joe listens to on a regular basis: The Ringer Network and The Dave Chang Show

Listen to the beautiful and amazing Korean music Joe references, a band called LEENALCHI, combining ancient Korean musical storytelling (pansori) with modern K-Pop elements

Check out the podcast The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill from Christianity Today

Read the book The Pastor: A Crisis, by Bradley Jersak and Wm. Paul Young

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Episode 54: The "O" Episode

Keeping the alliteration theme going, Craig and Cody talk about the letter “O” on this episode! Opening with some, um… QUESTIONABLE (at best) beatboxing and a MUCH too deep of a dive into the anthropological implications of Disney’s Pinocchio (although some profound things were definitely accidentally said), we moved quickly to our O topics for the day:

OHTANI

Like every other baseball fan (and an increasing number of non-baseball fans), we are ENTHRALLED with Shohei “Shotime” Ohtani. What he is achieving this season so far is unprecedented in the history of the game. This discussion was recorded prior to the All-Star Game, where Ohtani became the first player in MLB history to start in the mid-season classic as both a pitcher and a hitter. He is leading the majors in home runs AND pitching very well (one disastrous outing aside). We discuss:

• Preaching illustrations using Ohtani’s ability to “be ready in season or out of season”

• Why self-labeled “purists” need to get over their disdain of the Babe Ruth comparisons and just enjoy what we are witnessing

OLYMPICS

Our discussion about comparing eras of sports led to an aside on activist athletes in history, and competitors whose mere existence and life story inspired minorities and moved change forward. The Olympics have historically been a place where international politics have led to some dismal decisions—and this years Olympics are no different. We discuss:

• The Nigerian Olympic team being unable to field a 400 team because the JUDGES placed the cones wrong, leading to disqualifications of all competitors.

• Caster Semanya, and her lifetime ban from competing due to hormone levels beyond her control

• Two Nambian Olympic sprinters, Christine Mboma and Beatrice Masilingi were disqualified from competing in the 400 meter for the same reason as Caster—natural testosterone levels too high (though they CAN compete in the 200?)

• Sha’carri Richardson essentially being banned from the Olympic team for her use of marijuana.

• Brianna Rollins-McNeal and her HIGHLY questionable five-year ban for “tampering with medical records,” when she CORRECTED the medical records incorrect date that was listed (she adjusted the doctor’s mistaken date of a procedure).

• We notice the common denominator in ALL of this: women of color being forced not to compete.

OPEN & RELATIONAL THEOLOGY, OORD

• We share some insights on Dr. Thomas Oord’s newest book Open & Relational Theology: An Introduction to Life-Changing Ideas (which features an endorsement from the All That’s Holy Blue Collar Podcast.

• We give a basic overview of the book, with Cody sharing some of his favorite things about the book

• How open & relational theology is a perfect avenue to explore God during times of trauma and upheaval

And of course a whole lot more!

Pertinent Links:
Learn about Shohei Ohtani
Read about Caster Semenya and her battle to overturn her ban
Educate yourself on the cases of the Nambian athletes disqualification, Sha’Carri Richardson, and Brianna Rollins-McNeal

GO BUY Dr. Oord’s newest book, Open and Relational Theology: An Introduction to Life-Changing Ideas

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Episode 53: Kalie, part 2 (a look at Genesis 1&2)

Kalie joins us once again— last installment, Kalie shared with us her personal story of transition and embracing fully who she is. This time, Kalie drops some insight on familiar scripture, Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. Highlights from this episode include:

• How LGBTQ+ people fit in to the creation narrative.

• The ways our cultural views shape our take on the creation story, and vice versa.

• Kalie notes that we don’t hold nature to strict binary categories, even though the creation story presents God’s creation in general binary categories (earth/sky, land/water, etc.). So why humans?

• ACCIDENTALLY PROFOUND STATEMENT ALERT: Cody notes that limiting the image of God even by a factor of one (down to binary) creates a false image, and is thus idolatry.

• ACCIDENTALLY PROFOUND STATEMENT ALERT 2: Kalie notes that being like Christ does NOT mean giving up who you are, but is rather about being FULLY who you are.

• Kalie talks about how the early church took Jesus’ teachings seriously, and thus began exploding patriarchal norms and cultural constructs of masculinity. UNTIL some leaders put a stop to it with a new interpretation on Jesus’ teachings.

• and much, MUCH more.

Pertinent Links:
here is a recently published article Kalie penned for Whosoever (an online magazine that serves as a resource for LGBT Christians)

A book Kalie mentioned:
Transforming: The Bible and the Lives of Transgender Christians

A sermon Kalie preached:
Loved and Affirmed from Creation: How LGBTQ+ are Expressions of God's Image in Humanity

Find Kalie and interact with her on instagram: @JustKalieH

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Episode 52: Kalie & Pride Month

Keeping the alliteration theme going, Craig and Cody are joined by Kalie— a transgender woman serving as associate pastor and intern at a congregation in Decatur, GA.

This is the first episode of a two part conversation with Kalie— the highlights of this episode include:

• Pride Flags and marketing— is the embrace of Pride Month by corporate giants and professional sports leagues capitalism run amok? Merely a marketing tool? A sign of progress? What does it mean?!

• Transgender laws and resolutions popping up all over the country for debate in sessions of state legislatures, paricularly in the world of sports. Why now? Kalie discusses the impact these laws and the debates about them have on transgender kids.

• Kalie shares her experience as a closeted trans kid, and discusses the ways her experience is similar to trans kids today, and the many ways their experience is different from her own.

• Kalie talks about her background (being raised in an ultraconvservative family, in an ultraconservative religious tradition) affected her acceptance of herself and others in the LGBTQ+ community, and why it took so long to become inclusive of others who were like her.

• Kalie shares stories of when and where she finally felt safe in her own skin in a church congregation, and in her new city/community.

• AND, in an All That’s Holy FIRST, boobs are mentioned!— not once, not twice, BUT THRICE!

We concliude the episode with a mutual agreement: Kalie MUST join us again for an episode dedicated specifially to her insight and understanding of the Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 scriptures as it pertains to the full expression of human sexuality and identification. Look for part 2 SOON!

Pertinent Links:
here is a recently published article Kalie penned for Whosoever (an online magazine that serves as a resource for LGBT Christians)

A book Kalie mentioned:
Transforming: The Bible and the Lives of Transgender Christians

Find Kalie and interact with her on instagram: @JustKalieH

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